Welcome to How Humans Heal. I’m Dr. Doni Wilson, and today I’m excited to share insights from my conversation with registered dietitian and clinical nutritionist Bonni London. She is founder of London Wellness. With over 30 years of experience in nutrition, Bonni has worked with everyone from elite athletes to hospice patients, specializing in metabolism and that stubborn belly fat we’re all trying to understand and address. As a clinical nutritionist myself, it is pleasure to have this conversation with a colleague and share our combined wisdom with all of you.

Why Traditional Diet Advice No Longer Works to Lose Weight

Let’s start with something that might surprise you: the old “eat less, exercise more” approach simply doesn’t work anymore. Back in 1970, you might not have needed to see a nutritionist because that basic recommendation would have been completely adequate for losing belly fat or weight. But now, it’s not enough anymore.

What’s changed? Over the past decades, our exposure to toxins has dramatically increased, and so many other factors have shifted in our modern world. While proper diet, managing stress, sleep, and exercise are still the foundation, they’re just not sufficient on their own anymore. This is why functional medicine, which really gets to the root cause of what’s going on, has become so important.

Many people are seeking help specifically for post-menopausal belly fat, but they quickly realize something crucial: you don’t lose weight to get healthy. You actually must get healthy first in order to lose weight. This is a key concept for people to understand, and it’s fundamental to lasting success.

Breaking Free from Scale Obsession and Calorie Counting 

Bonni and I both wish we could throw out the scale to weigh yourself completely. The scale really doesn’t give you all the information you need. We get so focused on those numbers, and honestly, growing up in the 1980s created more dysfunctional relationships with food than any other decade between calorie counting, chronic cardio, and that stupid scale. 

I, Dr. Doni, got rid of my scale decades ago and never go near it. Who cares what the number says if your pants fit? That’s a much better measure than what’s showing up on the scale. When I was getting my nutrition degree, before I went to naturopathic medical school, we were taught to crunch the numbers and focus on calories in, calories out. But even back in the 90s when I was researching this, I could see that this approach wasn’t working. It doesn’t solve the issue. 

Then we went through that whole time period of avoiding fat and eating fat-free foods, so people were eating more carbs, which just made everything worse. Many of us were victims of this approach. Some people struggled with weight for 15-20 years following these recommendations, especially those with conditions like PCOS, which involves insulin resistance. The worst possible diet for insulin resistance? The 1980s high-carb, low-fat approach combined with stressing ourselves out with chronic cardio. 

When you’re not eating fat, which is so important for hormones, and not getting enough protein, you’re constantly hungry. Then you think it’s some sort of deficit in your willpower, which is heartbreaking to see. But as soon as people start eating what their body really needs – whole foods, protein, healthy fats, basically going back to basics – they report the same thing: they’re not hungry anymore. That’s because fat is satiating. When we eat fat, it sends all the signals that we’ve eaten, so our body knows we’re satisfied. 

Understanding Healthy Fats and Avoiding Common Mistakes 

People often think that if they’re going to increase fat intake, they have to go all the way to a keto diet. But it doesn’t necessarily have to be that extreme. We just need to increase fat enough to give your body the right signals. While keto can be beneficial, it’s not for everyone, and it’s not necessary for everyone to achieve their weight loss goals. 

The main thing is eliminating highly processed carbs. People are still so afraid of fat, thinking it’s going to make them fat, and they worry about cardiovascular disease. But recent research has confirmed something important about fat: saturated fat can be dangerous if you combine it with starchy foods. So butter is to be used for the vegetables, not for bread. 

When you combine saturated fat with carbs, that’s when it becomes inflammatory and blood sugar starts going off track. That is what’s causing heart disease, not the fat from healthy fatty foods when eaten by itself. Even saturated fat from dairy has actually been shown to have a positive impact on all lipid markers. The science is much more nuanced and complex than we were taught. 

Another big issue from the 1980s was the idea of eating six times a day, which is kind of the opposite of what works best now. When people are having snacks all day, they’re mostly high-carb snacks, and you’re thinking about food constantly. How great is it when you can eat a big, satisfying meal with everything you need and then go five or six hours without thinking about food because you’re genuinely satisfied? 

The key is that some people have digestive issues, imbalanced bacteria, or maldigestion problems that need to be addressed first. If you’re not digesting food properly and you have imbalanced bacteria, you’re not going to be able to jump right into that eating pattern. You’ll need to heal yourself first. 

The Importance of Proper Digestion and Protein Quality 

As nutritionists, we learn about digestion more than probably any other type of provider. When you’re talking to a nutritionist, they’re going to discuss your digestion: how well are you digesting your food, and are you absorbing your nutrients? That’s just as important as getting the right nutrients, and I’d say it’s actually even more important. 

It’s not just what you’re eating; it’s what you’re absorbing. Just because you’re eating vegetables doesn’t mean you’re getting their benefits if they’re not cooked properly or if they contain anti-nutrients. For example, beans contain lectins and other compounds that can prevent you from absorbing the protein they contain. 

This brings up another issue with nutrition labeling. The labels don’t really explain what’s actually usable in the food. People say they’re getting protein from quinoa or other plant sources, and while there is some protein there, what we really want to know about protein isn’t on the label. We need to know: does it have the right amount of amino acids in the right ratio that your body recognizes and can use?

To give an extreme example that everyone understands: if you look at a package of broccoli, it might say 2 grams of protein per serving, but you know that protein is not the same quality as 2 grams from an egg. It’s just something to keep in mind because with all the labels, advertising, and misinformation out there, people are really confused about what they should be eating, what’s healthy, and what actually counts as usable protein. 

You can’t just add up grams of protein from any source. You have to look at the source of the protein and the amino acid profile, which isn’t on the label. You need someone who can help you understand which amino acids you’re getting to ensure you’re getting all the essential amino acids for muscle building and other bodily functions. 

The Truth About Belly Fat: Types and Causes 

Let’s talk about belly fat, because this is something that affects many people, especially during menopause, perimenopause, and post-menopause, but also men. First, Bonni wants to differentiate between different kinds of belly fat. If you can pinch it – what we used to call the “pinch an inch” test – that’s subcutaneous fat. While you may not like the way it looks aesthetically, this is actually healthier fat. 

The dangerous fat is what you see on people walking around with bellies that look tight as a drum. That’s visceral fat, where fat is growing around the organs. Men don’t receive the protection estrogen provides, which explains why they get beer bellies more easily. For women, after menopause particularly, when they no longer have the protection of estrogen and when other hormonal changes occur, there is a shift from storing subcutaneous fat on hips and thighs (which is healthy) to forming more belly fat. 

Other factors that play a role in belly fat include stress and cortisol. As we get older, we have more receptors in our belly for cortisol. It’s like the perfect storm – the stress hormone cortisol is directing any stored weight directly to your belly. It’s like an arrow saying all the extra weight should go right there, in case we needed it for survival, but we don’t need it. 

The good news is that there is hope for belly fat. We can totally reverse it. The biggest thing is blood sugar regulation – that’s number one on the hit parade. Insulin is really the gatekeeper of energy storage, and most people know about it relative to diabetes and how it helps keep glucose stable. As long as insulin is elevated, you’re going to have a difficult time losing that belly fat. 

The Serious Health Implications of Belly Fat 

We get so focused on belly fat from an aesthetic standpoint, and while it is important to address, instead of just thinking it’s all about appearance, we have to realize that belly fat around the waist is actually a messenger of something else. It’s telling us that insulin is an issue, cortisol is an issue, and there are other serious health concerns. 

One thing that’s often going on is fatty liver, which has become an epidemic. We have an epidemic of non-alcoholic fatty liver disease from high fructose corn syrup and processed foods, but even excess bread and refined carbs can trigger this. This condition doesn’t really have symptoms on its own, but it can be deadly. If you have belly fat, it’s definitely worth discussing with your doctor and looking at blood markers for elevated liver enzymes to identify fatty liver.  

We used to think that belly fat was just extra baggage along for the ride, but we now understand that it’s an endocrine organ. That means it’s producing messengers that communicate with your whole body – specifically, inflammatory messengers. This is way beyond aesthetics and not being able to button your pants. This is serious health territory. 

But if the aesthetic concern is what motivates people to address their health, that’s completely fine and understandable. The first step is definitely cleaning up the diet and then spending time addressing lifestyle factors like sleep and stress, which go hand in hand because they can both trigger cortisol and stress responses. 

Sleep: The Foundation of Metabolism and Recovery 

Sleep is really one of the foundations of health. This is where we’re losing fat, and this is where we’re building muscle – when we’re sleeping. Bonnie shares that she always tells people, especially when I’ve worked with athletes and spoken to young people: you know what the number one sports supplement is? Sleep. Parents love hearing this. 

We tend to push ourselves and think we’re doing nothing while we sleep, but in reality, it’s while we’re sleeping that our metabolism is working optimally. There are studies that show we can lose weight when we sleep, but we have to get ourselves in bed and actually get quality sleep. The quality of sleep matters just as much as the quantity. 

We have so many distractions now, and if you’re stressed, it’s like the worst punishment because that’s the hardest time to sleep – when you’re ruminating on something during the day. There are so many free resources available now. You can use your phone to listen to hypnotherapy, binaural beats, or other sleep aids. Just don’t watch the news before bed – that’s definitely not going to help your stress levels or sleep quality. 

Getting adequate, quality sleep is crucial for managing cortisol levels, supporting healthy metabolism, and allowing your body to recover and repair. Without proper sleep, all the other efforts you make with diet and exercise will be significantly compromised. 

Exercise: Less Can Be More 

There’s a lot of talk now about cortisol and exercising too much, and how this can really increase cortisol levels. This is another relic from the 1980s that we need to address. When we’re in menopause and think we need to eat less and spend hours at the gym to get rid of belly fat, we’re often making things worse. The chronic cardio approach from 1985 can really wreak havoc in later years when we’re trying to address belly fat. 

Here are some key principles for effective exercise: First, we’re not training for an event; we’re training for life. So it needs to be consistent and sustainable. You need to only do something you’re going to be able to stick with long-term. A lot of people decide on January 1st that they’re going to work out every day, and by February, they’ve given up completely. 

We’d rather have people do 15 minutes a day consistently than 90 minutes once a week. I never recommend working out more than 40-45 minutes at a time. Some people used to work out three hours a day and are leaner now, 30 years later, working out much less than they were when they struggled with weight. 

Let me summarize what we’re really saying here: sleep more, eat more fat, and exercise less. This might sound counterintuitive, but it’s based on solid science and real-world results.

For exercise specifics, some sort of interval training or high-intensity work is beneficial, but you should alternate workouts. Here’s why: we need to consider that it’s only been seconds on the evolutionary clock that we’ve enjoyed food security and haven’t had to be constantly active. Our bodies are still basically wired like we’re nomads in the desert, but we’re built to be somewhat sedentary and look for the closest parking space. 

We need to engage in a little trickery with our bodies. If you do the same workout every day, within a couple of weeks your body adapts, and we’re trying to prevent that adaptation. So Monday might always be the same workout, but Tuesday is different, Wednesday is different, and so on. 

Although exercise alone hasn’t been directly linked to weight loss in many studies, what it does is critical for where you lose weight, which comes back to the belly fat issue. When you’re working out hard enough that you need oxygen and it’s challenging, this sends a strong signal to your body to build more and stronger mitochondria. These are the powerhouses of cells where we utilize oxygen, and they’re also where we burn fat. We want more of these mitochondria because they’re our friends. 

Muscle is also an endocrine organ with positive messengers called myokines. Think about the difference between a sprinter who is muscular and strong versus a marathoner who looks emaciated. The muscle is giving you positive signals – that’s where the mitochondria are, and that’s where the positive longevity signals come from. 

Getting Enough Protein: The Game Changer 

For women who are peri and post-menopausal, this can be a challenging time because hormones might be disrupting sleep, and it can be harder to build and maintain muscle. But this doesn’t mean we give up – it means we need to be more strategic about helping women sleep better and get the right amount of exercise without overdoing it. 

The biggest thing for women in their 50s and 60s is getting enough protein. We’ve both seen remarkable transformations when women start eating adequate protein. One 65-year-old client who initially just wanted to lose weight for her grandson’s wedding complained the first week that it was too much food. She didn’t need to lose much weight, but she ended up losing 13 pounds of fat and gaining 2-3 pounds of muscle by eating more. This is something Bonni and I both see all the time. 

People often say they can’t possibly eat that much protein, but protein is amazing. It’s the number one macronutrient that should be prioritized. When we’re hungry, we typically think of eating chips or crackers because they seem easy and convenient. We don’t automatically reach for a hard-boiled egg or turkey. We’re just not trained that way. 

Here’s something fascinating about protein: we have receptors in our gut that let us know when we’ve had enough amino acids. In fact, we’ve learned a tremendous amount about weight gain by studying how livestock are fed. When farmers want cows to gain more weight, they decrease the amount of protein in their feed. Why? Because to get the amino acids their body needs, the cows will eat more carbohydrates. They’ll keep eating until they get adequate amino acids. 

The same thing happens with people. When they’re really eating adequate protein, they report that they don’t think about food and aren’t hungry anymore. There’s a range for protein intake, but the bottom limit, no matter how tall you are, seems to be about 100 grams that every woman should get. Many current recommendations are even higher. 

Here’s an easy calculation: aim for about a gram per ideal body weight. If you’re 5’5″, the ideal weight is considered around 125 pounds, so if you currently weigh 150 pounds, you’d want to get at least 100 grams of protein per day, with bonus points if you can get to 125 grams. Not every day needs to be picture perfect, but this is a real game changer. 

When you focus on getting adequate protein, the other parts of the meal become a nonissue because most protein sources come with some healthy fats too. I, Dr. Doni, always say to aim for protein first. I’ve told myself for many years that if I get that feeling where I’m hungry and crave something with carbs – even if I’m going to choose something like popcorn, chips, or crackers – my rule is that there has to be protein with it. This forces me to either rethink whether I really need to eat right now, or if I am going to eat, to include at least 20 grams of protein. 

This approach makes you stop and ask: what do I really need right now? Sometimes it’s water, sometimes it’s hydration, sometimes you need to go to bed. We’re the only animal on the planet that uses food as entertainment, and we need to be compassionate with ourselves while also being aware of this tendency. 

Practical Steps to Get Started 

If you’re looking for just one small step to start with, focus on breakfast. This seems to be the main meal where people don’t get enough protein. Most people may not know what 3040 grams of protein looks like. An egg only has about 6 grams of protein, so you’d need a lot of eggs to hit your target. 

For most people, we haven’t eaten in about 12 hours by breakfast time, so your body can be recycling proteins and becoming catabolic. Research shows that first meal is really the most critical for setting your metabolic tone for the day. 

What does 30 grams of protein look like? If you do a whey protein shake, you’re in luck because that’s such high-quality protein that 20-30 grams will hit that mark right there. If you’re going to do eggs, try three eggs and either add some extra egg whites or include meat on the side like smoked salmon. You can even add unflavored whey protein to scrambled eggs – it works and is an easy way to boost protein. 

Yogurt typically has only about 15 grams of protein, so you can add protein powder to yogurt. For anyone who’s vegan and won’t eat animal products, you can definitely do a plant-based protein, but my suggestion is to also purchase amino acids separately and add them, because there are some limiting amino acids in plant proteins. Adding individual amino acids makes that plant-based protein much more complete and effective. 

You can get protein shakes that are dairy-free but still give you 20-30 grams of protein. Hydrolyzed beef protein, often called bone broth protein, is an excellent option that gives you high-quality protein without being a dairy source. You can add this to coconut yogurt or other foods – you don’t have to just have protein in shake form. 

Remember, breakfast is really a modern invention. Anything could be breakfast – it could be steak, it could be tuna fish. It doesn’t have to look like the traditional American breakfast of pancakes or cereal. We need to redefine what breakfast looks like and focus on getting that crucial protein to start our day right. 

The key takeaway is this: Focus on getting the nutrients you need – especially protein – rather than restricting what you can’t have. When you focus on getting adequate protein and healthy fats, the discussion about limiting other foods becomes much easier. This approach works with your body’s natural signals rather than fighting against them, leading to sustainable, long-term success with both health and weight management. 

Remember, you must get healthy first in order to lose weight, not the other way around. This means addressing the root causes – insulin resistance, cortisol dysfunction, poor sleep, inadequate protein intake, and digestive issues such as microbiome imbalances and leaky gut – rather than just focusing on the symptoms like belly fat or the number on the scale.  

The goal isn’t perfection; it’s progress. Each small change you make toward eating more protein, getting better sleep, recovering from stress, and exercising appropriately is a step toward better health. 

If you would like to learn more about Bonni and how she can help you make sure to visit the London Wellness website here. You can also find her on Instagram @bonnilondonrd and Facebook @London Wellness. She also hosts a podcast called Healthy Rebels, you can access it here.

You can also download her new guide Healthy Choices for Dining Out, Ordering In! here where she unveils the secrets to making healthier choices at your favorite restaurants so you can dine out without the guilt and keep shedding those extra pounds. And her book “Healthy Rebels: Live Well, Lose Weight, And Defy A World That Makes You Fat” is coming out soon so stay tuned! 

If you are looking to do a cleanse or you feel like you would like to detoxify your body to improve your overall health and wellness I definitely encourage you to check out my 14-Day Detox Program. This program includes two protein shakes per day with 18 grams of protein, and two meals per day with a dairy-free, gluten-free meal plan that I created based on making sure you get at least 20 to 30 grams of protein in each meal.  

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It also includes antioxidants, and videos from me to teach you to use mindfulness, as well as to replace toxins in your food and home. In this way, you can reset your diet, lifestyle and cell health all carrying on with your daily activities and routine. 

You can find the Nature Empowered Nutritionals protein powders – which I use and recommend to patients – in bone broth or pea protein.

As a Naturopathic Doctor, Clinical Nutritionist and women’s health expert, I have been helping women with stubborn fat loss for over 25 years. I am available to provide one-on-one support, and I offer consultations via Zoom or phone from anywhere in the world.  

You don’t have to figure it out on your own. My team and I are here to help guide you step by step on your weight loss journey. As discussed in the episode, my approach is to look at you as a whole person – mind, body and spirit – and to identify the root causes and imbalances that we can address which can then allow your body to be able to lose weight while improving your overall health.  

If you’re struggling with weight loss and would like to get to the root cause of the problem, I welcome you to reach out through my website doctordoni.com.  

You can schedule to become a new patient so we can talk through what you’re experiencing and help you know your next steps. Please know that if you’re struggling and frustrated and hoping there’s another way, there is, and I’m happy to share that with you and help you find that path to transform your health and your future. 

Thank you all for joining me for this fascinating discussion with Bonni. Remember, your body knows how to heal – it just needs the right tools and support to do so. 

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